Orazio's New Galleon: The Sant'yago (Saint James)

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This topic contains 28 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Stéphane Stéphane 1 week, 1 day ago.

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  • #3372
    Profile photo of Stéphane
    Stéphane
    Participant

    Sorry to hijack Staphane’s query on the mega patch, but the new version of GOF ERAS2 (1.6.0) is very close to release and this topic has become more of a feature thread showcasing Orazio’s new galleon based on Landstrom’s drawings extracted from a contemporary model in the Naval Museum of Madrid. The meat of the discussion and illustration of Orazio’s incredible work is below.

    Again apologies Stephane, but you don’t have long to wait now!

    MK

    Hello guys, i was looking for all your great work from a long time now, and i read the mega patch will be up this month …

    Can anyone confirm when it will be available ?

    • This topic was modified 3 weeks, 3 days ago by Profile photo of modernknight1 modernknight1.
  • #3373
    Profile photo of modernknight1
    modernknight1
    Keymaster

    I have been working on it. However some major real world issues have prevented me from finishing. The water main has broken below my foundation (slab) in my house. I have no water and we have been digging under my foundation. This has been consuming all of my time for the last week. Sorry. This has been very destructive. It has flooded the backside of my house.

    As soon as it is all repaired, I can get back to finishing up the patch.

    MK

  • #3397
    Profile photo of Stéphane
    Stéphane
    Participant

    Hope your real world issues are fixed by now, any ETA for the patch ?

  • #3398
    Profile photo of Orazio
    Orazio
    Participant

    I see there is still almost no activity here… which is kind of disappointing!

    Anyway, I’ve recently decided to model a ship for this game, after too much time thinking I wasn’t ready yet.
    So I picked a spanish galleon from 1540 (according to the tables), without knowing if it’s already in the mod (that I don’t have installed right now, so I can’t check; besides, I think 1540 is outside the time frame of ERAS2).

    Still working on it, this is the progress so far:

  • #3399
    Profile photo of Devoidbrah
    Devoidbrah
    Participant

    Looking GOOD!!!! Is the polygon count still moderate? Seeing as this looks so nicely polished.

    WoW, just WoW!

    Im having some issues though In my game with the boardings, with the new interiors the waypoints are inverted so you spawn below deck and the npcs cant fight eachother. I will upload a pic soon to display this. maybe Theres already a fix or did something wrong 😛

  • #3403
    Profile photo of modernknight1
    modernknight1
    Keymaster

    Sorry Gents on the ETA for the new patch. If anything my personal problems have got even worse than before. I am hoping to have time over the holidays to get everything finished and over to Jeffrey for a new full complete version of the mod.

    Several new ships are in the works. I just saw the pics of Orazio’s new galleon. All I can saw is WOW!!!! Just FREAKING WOW!!! I have ALWAYS loved that ship. I have plans for it and Bjorn Landstrom features it in his landmark book on the history of ships.

    @ ORAZIO: You are giving me the will to continue when I have been totally burned out on life. Ships just have an effect on me which I cannot put into words.

    This is indeed a galleon from the 1540-1560 era. It will be perfect for MoD1 and can still be found as a rare surviving ship in MOD2. You have totally made my day, my week and my month. Thank you Mate!

    A lot of new stuff almost ready to go up if I can just get some free time tonight. My father saw the doctor today and is much better. He’s got an oxygen machine now and I don’t have to change his bottles every hour or two. If he will go to sleep early tonight maybe I can get some work done. I am getting a nurse to come check on him everyday as I have to leave here in a week.

    Maybe Dennis is right and you will all get a Christmas gift. I will try hard to make that happen.

    MK

  • #3404
    Profile photo of Orazio
    Orazio
    Participant

    @devoidbrah In that picture the triangle count is around 10k. I checked some of the other ships made by other modellers, and see they can go up to 70/100k; somebody on the other forum recommended a maximum of 100k. Now, I think 100k may be a bit too much, because usually in the game there are more ships together, so I plan to use a much less number of triangles, below 40k (but actually I still have no idea of the final polycount!).

    @modernknight1 Didn’t expect this effect, but I’m glad I gave you motivation!
    In the site where I downloaded the plans, they say this galeon – called Sant’Yago – was based on the researches of Bjorn Landstrom and on a model in the Naval Museum of Madrid. So you recognized it just by looking at an unfinished model! You’re truly an expert! (though I never doubted that :D)

  • #3406
    Profile photo of Orazio
    Orazio
    Participant

    A small update on the ship:

    The rigging took more time than I had expected, and I was starting to hate it!
    There are still things missing, but it’s slowly coming together.
    And of course those aren’t the final colors, texturing will come later.

    • #3409
      Profile photo of Jeffrey
      Jeffrey
      Participant

      Orazio, I agree with Schiavonna. That ship is stunning. Seriously great work so far.

    • #3421
      Profile photo of modernknight1
      modernknight1
      Keymaster

      Orazio Mate, I am going to go out on a limb here and tell you that I am having a somewhat dramatic emotional response looking at your model. It nearly brings tears to my eyes and I am not kidding when I say that.

      Lets take the “way-back machine” back to 1972(3). My father was a musician and I got dragged across the country as a small child. Much of the time we would spend months in hotel rooms because my Dad’s contract would get picked up for additional months. I got LEGOs for my 4th birthday and loved ships because my mother had bought me the How and Why book of Ships (which I still have). So I built ships out of my LEGOs. We returned to Idaho Falls (my home town) that Christmas and unbeknownst to me my Mom and Dad bought me several model ship kits at a now long out of business retail store known as TEMPO.

      I had turned 6 years old in November. On Christmas day I was presented with the PYRO models of Nina, Pinta, and Santa Maria…. and…. the Madrid (Landstrom plans) Spanish Galleon you are now building. My father helped me (did most of it) with the kits and I would play with them in the bath tub. These little models held up for years and I took great care of them. I had them until my teens when they disappeared after I moved out of the house when my parents split up at 14 years old.

      That ship model was by far my favorite and I always wished they would produce a larger model kit of it. On my bucket list are plans to eventually scratch build a version of it into my old age.

      Recently I have been trying to acquire as many of the old kits still available and have been somewhat successful. Amazingly these things still turn up on e-bay. Just this week a box arrived at my house and inside is a pristine 1960’s version of this same model still in its original box. I plan to slowly build her with meticulous accuracy over the next month or two. Here it is:

      Spanish Galleon Pyro

      I have another version of a different Spanish galleon I have been building for years which is RC remote control capable. She already has ballast and floats perfectly. She has an external engine that attaches to the keel and both the rudder and masts all move. The rigging will all be elastic so that it will flex as the sails move back and forth. Only the rigging remains left to complete. Once the next version of the ERAS mod is complete I plan to start working on her again at the same time I work on the new world map and ERAS mod 1 and 3.

      DSC00836

      The pictures you show for paint scheme are perfect and the correct ones. It would be nice if you could have three separate skins as we have for most the other models. A clean wood colored one as you already show would be nice with only the shields on the gun wales colored. In addition, an nice dark tar coated version would also be very appropriate as Schiavona mentioned. The galleons in the tropics were often very dark.

      I took these great picture myself at the national gallery not too long ago. Its a painting of a small Dutch galleon (probably a zee roover privateer) chasing a much larger fleeing Spanish Galleon circa 1600 timeframe – so a few decades after your galleon, but I love the wood coloring in this painting.

      DSC00632
      DSC00633
      DSC00628

      Thanks so much for the renewed inspiration! I greatly look forward to your completed work.

      This next version of the mod will be the best so far. I have lost count of all the new ships going in!

      MK

      • #3438
        Profile photo of Orazio
        Orazio
        Participant

        I had no idea of the meaning that this ship has for you. I just picked it (almost) randomly from a website that had a bunch of plans: I was looking for something not very complex, and also a ship that isn’t too famous, as I wanted to do something unique.

        The ship is definitely the one in the box you showed, but on the plans it’s not called Madrid, rather Santiago de Compostela, and on the stern it’s painted what I believe to be Santiago Matamoros, on his horse killing Muslims (I don’t mean any offence to them here, it’s an iconographic representation).

        About the paint schemes, I wasn’t really planning others apart from the one I showed, but if it won’t take too much time I may consider doing also the other two you suggested.

        And your real model looks good! I looked at many different real models as a reference for parts I wasn’t sure about, and also checked different modelling forums. Sometimes the problems and challenges faced by a real modeler are very similar to those faced by a 3D modeler, so I think there’s a lot in common.

  • #3407
    Profile photo of Schiavonna
    Schiavonna
    Participant

    Wow!! Orazio…that is breath-taking! The rigging looks fantastic, as much as you may find it frustrating, it’s starting to pay off well. Very professional 🙂

    Early days yet – but regarding texturing, I hope you go for the deep, dark wood look. Already looks gorgeous with your first “coat”.

    Seriously mate, that is stunning!

  • #3414
    Profile photo of Orazio
    Orazio
    Participant

    Thanks for the appreciation.
    For the colors, I have found at least three images that show the same color scheme (which I find pretty good), so I believe that is accurate and will be using that.



  • #3456
    Profile photo of modernknight1
    modernknight1
    Keymaster

    Orazio, Actually I wasn’t referring to the model as being named the Madrid. I was referring to it as the Madrid model. This is because the later plans that have been extracted from that model by naval architects and artists serve as the basis for the later Landtrom (your) model.

    I have never seen the model in person only in diagrams and photos. It appears in Chatterton’s 1924 book on ship models. It also appears as a figure in Landstrom’s book.

    rbChatterton_Ships_Models_1934_f019
    Chatterton Madrid galleon

    There are some new screenshots up on my flickr showing a couple of the new ships. I have all of the ship models that I can’t do anything with bundled up into a rar attachment and will be getting those to you today. I did get MAYA working again, so the pseudo Wasa model I was working on is almost finished as well. Let me know if you want to get your new ship into the next version. Jeffrey and I are nearing completion in the next few days.

    I have new articles published and just tweaking them now. They will appear on the site later today. Your galleon is front page news!

    On the Santiago Compostela image – check out the stern of one of the skins of the Flemish Galleon and also check out the stern of one of the War Caraccas in the game. There are two different version of Santiago de Compostela on those sterns. One of them shows decapitated muslims being trod underfoot. He was very popular at that time and would be fitting for your galleon as well.

    MK

  • #3461
    Profile photo of Orazio
    Orazio
    Participant

    I started to texture it, doing the colored version first. I’m organizing the psd files in a way that will allow me to easily create the other two paint schemes (one like the first two images of the ship I posted here, and the another one pretty dark).

    Here is the texturing work till now:

    And this is a quick and dirt render I did some time ago to have an idea of the dark version:

    If the patch will be completed in a few days as you say, that’s not enough time for me. I think the patch should be released when it’s ready without further delay because of my ship, that I’ll release later separetely.

  • #3464
    Profile photo of modernknight1
    modernknight1
    Keymaster

    WOW! Incredible Orazio! I am in love with your work and this gorgeous beauty of a vessel!

    Yeah don’t worry about getting it in the new release. I told Jeffrey I want to try to release the new full mod by Friday or Saturday. Its a lot of work getting so much new stuff all packaged into the game. Very time consuming.

    BTW Jeffrey has changed the code so that we can get even more skins than just the base three. So a bunch of extra skins I’ve had for a long time that I didn’t like quite as much as the others will finally be seen in the game. There are numerous ships now with working Hull4 and Hull5 folders in this upcoming version. All this to say that if in your work to get skins done for the ship you eliminate ones that you aren’t totally happy with, they can still be included if you still think they are good.

    Still gonna feature your ship on the main page though.

    MK

  • #3528
    Profile photo of Orazio
    Orazio
    Participant

    I’m not sure where to post this, but I’ll continue here since all the images of the galleon are here. A small update.. still texturing it, I’m slow but it’s coming along.

    In these screenshots there are still things that need to be finished and refined, but they show the progress. Unfortunately, the ship will look a little worse in game because I rendered these images with a very good render engine included in 3DS Max; in AoP there aren’t even shadows on ships and the light is very simplified.


    On the stern there is one of the few images of Santiago Matamoros that I could find that was wider than tall. Otherwise I would have needed to stretch the image to fit it in the stern, and I want to avoid stretched textures as much as I can.

  • #3530
    Profile photo of modernknight1
    modernknight1
    Keymaster

    WOW! That looks absolutely INCREDIBLE Orazio. I told Jeffrey just the other day that I’ve never played the Spanish Questline after all of these years playing the game. There are some awesome new Spanish characters in the new version and with the new flags Spanish ships will be more glorious than ever! So when she is ready to sail, I will be starting the Spanish Questline and going to look all over for her to be my flagship.

    Thanks for all the great effort!

    MK

  • #3534
    Profile photo of Orazio
    Orazio
    Participant

    A thread for my ship? Thanks 😀

    This time it won’t be an update on the progress, but a discovery I’ve recently made about textures and their quality.

    Age of Pirates (like the majority of games I think) makes use of texture compression, for a more efficient use of resources: compression can reduce a texture file size up to 4 times. However, there is a downside, which is the creation of artifacts in the image.

    The algorithm used for compression in AoP (and again, in many other games) is the DXTC, or S3TC. TX Converter, that should be the official program used to DXT compress and convert textures in a format readable by the game (tga.tx), generates a lot of artifacts, often making an image kind of grainy and ruining the little details.
    But the DXT compression can be made using other tools as well, like the NVIDIA DDS plugin for Photoshop. Testing this method, I noticed the artifacts generated in the texture are far less noticeable than using TX Converter, while keeping the same level of compression. The only problem is that now I have textures in DDS format, which is not usable in AoP, and simply changing the file extension doesn’t work.

    So I fiddled a bit with a hex editor, changing the file signature (the very beginning of the file, is it the right word?) of the DDS file to resemble a tga.tx file, and also changing the extension to tga.tx. To my surprise, it worked!
    So now I can use the better compression provided by the NVIDIA DDS plugin, and still have a texture that is usable in AoP. Check the following image for a comparison (open it in another tab to see it at the full resolution).

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks ago by Profile photo of Orazio Orazio.
    • #3536
      Profile photo of Jeffrey
      Jeffrey
      Participant

      Yes, the code looks for a file header to match their expected data structure defined in texture.h:

      //Formats
      enum TX_FORMAT
      {    
      	TXF_A8R8G8B8			= 21,
      	TXF_X8R8G8B8			= 22,
      	TXF_R5G6B5				= 23,  
      	TXF_A1R5G5B5			= 25,
      	TXF_A4R4G4B4			= 26,
      	TXF_P8					= 41,
      	TXF_L8					= 50,
      	TXF_V8U8				= 60,
      	TXF_L6V5U5				= 61,
      	TXF_DXT1				= '1TXD',
      	TXF_DXT2				= '2TXD',
      	TXF_DXT3				= '3TXD',
      	TXF_DXT4				= '4TXD',
      	TXF_DXT5				= '5TXD',
      };
      
      //File header
      struct TX_FILE_HEADER
      {
      	long flags;				//info flags
      	long width, height;		//texture size
      	long nmips;				//number mip levels
      	TX_FORMAT format;		//texture format
      	long mip_size;			//size of mip 0 (width*height*pixel_size)
      };

      That TX_FORMAT bit is their own definition, that they then map to DX format codes when they send it to DirectX:

      SD_TEXTURE_FORMAT textureFormats[] =
      {
      	{TXF_DXT1, D3DFMT_DXT1, true, "D3DFMT_DXT1"},
      	{TXF_DXT3, D3DFMT_DXT3, true, "D3DFMT_DXT3"},
      	{TXF_DXT5, D3DFMT_DXT5, true, "D3DFMT_DXT5"},
      	{TXF_A8R8G8B8, D3DFMT_A8R8G8B8, false, "D3DFMT_A8R8G8B8"},
      	{TXF_X8R8G8B8, D3DFMT_X8R8G8B8, false, "D3DFMT_X8R8G8B8"},
      	{TXF_R5G6B5, D3DFMT_R5G6B5, false, "D3DFMT_R5G6B5"},
      	{TXF_A4R4G4B4, D3DFMT_A4R4G4B4, false, "D3DFMT_A4R4G4B4"},
      	{TXF_A1R5G5B5, D3DFMT_A1R5G5B5, false, "D3DFMT_A1R5G5B5"},
      };

      So you were correct in thinking to change that beginning file info, because that is the very first thing checked and if it doesn’t match their expected file structure, it won’t load it. But eventually, they send the remaining file contents to DirectX, which appears to handle the rest of the image bits.

  • #3537
    Profile photo of modernknight1
    modernknight1
    Keymaster

    So I feel like the dummy here. Are you telling me that we can enjoy higher quality textures in the game with less memory involved in the process?

    Also Orazio, I don’t see your images on this page now. Did something happen to them. I can upload them to our repository on the this website if you like. I can probably figure out how to give permission for you to do that yourself as well if you like.

    MK

    • #3542
      Profile photo of Orazio
      Orazio
      Participant

      No, I didn’t mean that. I have only found out a better way to compress textures, but the impact on performance is exactly the same. Most of the textures have been compressed using TX Converter, that generates more artifacts (mainly grain) than the NVIDIA DSS plugin, that is much cleaner. Those textures can’t be improved, because once an image is DXT compressed, it can’t be restored to its original state (I think).
      Only new textures, that haven’t been compressed yet, can benefit from the method “DDS > hex editing > tga.tx”.

      This is only valid assuming we are using compressed textures, because they can also be kept uncompressed, like if I recall correctly the items textures that were causing big delays when opening chests or stores.
      For me, textures should always be compressed for better performance.

      About the images, I can see all of them correctly. Maybe it was just a temporary problem?

    • #3543
      Profile photo of Jeffrey
      Jeffrey
      Participant

      Same here…I can see the images fine. I am wondering, after that last pic episode, where I never saw what you did, if there is something amiss on your end of the internet connection? Provider routing or something? It just seems similar to the last ordeal where WE are all fine, but yours is somehow different.

  • #3545
    Profile photo of modernknight1
    modernknight1
    Keymaster

    OK Thanks for the explanation….. and that reminds me that I owe you those other texture files as well. I will get right on that. Sorry I would forget my head these days if it weren’t attached because I am so busy with so many things right now.

    Yeah it was temporary but I think it was that icube site because when I entered the native addresses for the illustrations there was nothing there. An hour later everything was back and I could see stuff at the native addresses as well. I have been pulling a lot of all nighters lately to try to get everything done for this version of the mod. So I was wanting to copy the illustrations to put on the front page of the website when I refresh everything to reflect all of the new content about to go up. When I went to copy them they were not there and that’s why I commented.

    Thanks fellas

    MK

    EDIT: OK I think I know what’s going on. It’s Firefox. Because the site is https: Firefox has a filter that screens out image content that comes from other websites that are http: Once I disable that filter on my browser the images show up consistently. So for anyone who has these settings enabled on Firefox, they will not be able to see the images either.

  • #3555
    Profile photo of Orazio
    Orazio
    Participant

    The texturing phase is almost complete: I’m working on the two boats now, then the cannons and a few minor details I left for the end.
    Here are some renders — NOT in game screenshots! — you may notice floating/missing objects, as they’re still work in progress:

  • #3556
    Profile photo of ram
    ram
    Participant

    thumbsup!
    and one question : winter is almost over now, we are preparing for spring 🙂
    any good news about the mega patch release?

  • #3557
    Profile photo of Galleon
    Galleon
    Participant

    That is some incredible beauty of work! I am called Galleon on here and other places because I love Galleons and with this ship I will play the game again after months away from it. Words do not describe the work here. I was so already astounded by new cabins to begin but now this? My heart almost stops now. This man should be working for game companies but he is here with us! Good for us I say maybe right.

    I talked to MK in person tonight. He says he is too busy to say anything until ready. He says files are passing to Jeffrey now for final work and will be ready any time. He says that though we cannot see changes on website presently there is much changing and we will see it at any time. I thought maybe he was dead or something so I called him. He is fine just busy and asked if I would make a comment. He is very unhappy that people don’t comment more.

    EDIT: There I commented. Happy? LOL

    • This reply was modified 1 week, 2 days ago by Profile photo of Galleon Galleon.
  • #3559
    Profile photo of modernknight1
    modernknight1
    Keymaster

    Indeed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Words CANNOT describe this pure genius work of art SIR! I am at a loss. I’m too old to fall in love with girls anymore, but this – this takes my breath away.

    @RAM and Stephane, Sorry for the hiatus. Many issues but the new mod is done. Just some final tweaking by Jeffrey is required so that everything is native in the newest version and that our (SPOILER) new pirate colony of Boddon’s Landing and new cabins and decks in addition to Orazio’s gorgeous cabins are all fully functional.

    The website will be refreshing in the next 24 hours with TONS of new content.

    @Galleon. Thanks. You get a gold star my friend. I will tell Nella to give you a raise the next time I talk to her. LOL

    MK

  • #3562
    Profile photo of Stéphane
    Stéphane
    Participant

    that’s great news, we have the final new version with all the good work 🙂 , well done !

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